Ep 185 w/ Matt Dennis On Travelling With A Disability: Breaking Barriers, Accessible Travel + Mindset

Every time I get back I'm buzzing and it's not just now from travelling with a disability but just because of the love of travelling. Seeing different people, different cultures, different places, all those sorts of things. But this is why part of my work is focused on accessible travel. Purely for that reason, it's because it can liberate your mind. And so much about what you are able to do is down to mindset. Disabled people will have some form of physical disability, some have mental disability.

your mindset is a huge influence on what you can and can't achieve. And a lot of the time, like I was, I was perceiving that I was limited in what I could do. I could no longer do this, could no longer do that, I could no longer walk unaided. And these are the things you kind of get told when these things happen to you. And let's not forget, the majority of people who are disabled become disabled at some point. They don't start their life disabled. Yes, not always, but there's that shift of being able to do something to suddenly not being able to do it.

I mean I can remember a doctor telling my mum and dad in front of me that he's not going to be able to walk again.

Welcome to the Winging It Travel Podcast, your weekly ticket to the world, dropping every Monday and hosted by me, James Hammond, proudly part of the Voy Escape Network. This is a travel podcast that throws out the itinerary and dove straight into the raw, real and unpredictable essence of global exploration, chasing moments over milestones, those spontaneous encounters, immersive sounds and unforgettable stories. Whether I'm hiking up volcanoes in Guatemala,

or camping under the stars in British Columbia.

met incredible people, seen breath taking places and collected unforgettable stories. I now get to share them with you, alongside some of the most diverse and well travelled guests from around the world. Expect engaging conversations that bring fresh perspectives and inspiring travel tales. There are also raw, reflective solo episodes where I share personal insights, practical tips and honest stories from the road. This is a podcast for travellers, dreamers, backpackers and anyone who's ever thought, what if I just went for it and travelled? If you're looking for stories to tell, tips to share,

and experiences to inspire, then you're in the right place. There's so much travel content coming your way, it might just spark that trip you've been dreaming about for years. You can find Winging It, a more fantastic travel podcast from around the world at voyescape.com. The link is in the show notes. Let's go and explore the world. Hello and welcome to this week's episode. I'm joined by Matthew Dennis, who I met in India early this year. And Matt is a journalist who writes about accessible travel.

He's also known as the empowered traveler. Matt has been featured in publications like the Metro, Evening Standard, The Independent, the iPaper, Adventure.com and many more. So today we're going to speak about Matt's journey in travel, being a travel writer and a journalist, as well as some of his favorite places in the world. Matt, welcome to the show. How are you doing?

James, it's great to be here. It's really good to see you again as well. It's been a while since we caught up last. yeah, I'm honored to be on the podcast and good to see you.

Yeah, it's great to see you again. It's been actually quite a few months actually. It kind of flew by the trip itself, then, was in March, right? And a lot has happened since then.

Was it March? Yeah, I think it was. Yeah, it seems longer. ⁓

Yeah, yeah, it's weird how things can move quickly in the travel world or world in general, should I say.

Yeah, there's always something to keep your eye on and something keeps it ticking over.

So where are you based right now, Matt?

I'm

in the UK ⁓ and oddly enough at the moment it is stiflingly hot, which is quite unusual for here. Yeah, rare, but very humid as well. And I'm right down in the Southwest. So on the border between Devon and Cornwall, there's a little town that if you ever say to English people, where are from? I always use as a pin, which is buted in a lot of people in the UK have been here on holiday.

That's interesting because when you travel when you're younger, you meet loads of people, right? On the backpacker trail, whatever. And one of the people I met was a couple from Butte. Yeah. They, ⁓ they did a boxing day or Christmas morning, swim and stuff like that. Right. And yeah, they're from Butte.

That's right. get back, they get a couple of thousand people running to the sea on Christmas morning every year. Yeah. It's getting bigger and bigger as the years go by.

Looks lovely, doesn't it, Trifa?

It's a great neck of the woods. really is. It has a balance because we're right in the countryside, we're right in the middle of nowhere. We have a beautiful coastline, we have lots of open spaces. We've got Dartmoor just down the road. We've got all the North Devon, Cornwall coast all the way down, some great surf. However, if you want to get to an airport, you want to get to a city, you've to be prepared to have an hour, two hour journey, three hour journey before you get anywhere else. ⁓

I was then going to ask where is the nearest big place?

So Exeter from here is an hour away and Bristol is about two and a half hours.

Yeah. Is that international Apple?

Bristol. Bristol is... There is one in Exeter, but it's very much UK holiday destination places. So Spain, Ibiza, and those sorts of destinations. And then when you get to winter time, the flights cut right back as well. So yeah, but Bristol is a big one. Unfortunately, my sister lives right next door to Bristol airport. it saves her the next healthy. I don't have to go five places.

You can't fly anywhere from there.

Yeah.

I was going to say back in the day, I think it used to be able to fly between Norwich and Exeter. That used to be a little route they used to do. Yeah, I don't think they do anymore, but hey, it's a shame.

I guess it's that distance travel thing, isn't it? That when you live in a country the size of Canada, a sort of a four hour drive isn't really that much given the scale of the country, but for something in the UK, four hour drive from here to Norwich is massive.

Is there any need for people going to Norwich and to Exeter vice versa? I'm not sure.

I most people just drive from one of those to London, don't they?

Yeah,

exactly. It's devastating. hey, cause I was thinking like, we'll get onto more travel in a bit, the islands off the Southwest coast, what are they called again? They are called Yes. And they're always, I don't know if they're under the radar. I don't know if you would agree with that, but they kind of are the idyllic UK islands. If you want a bit of weather, nice beach, very chill, right? But no one really knows they're there, they?

silly I'll.

Yeah. So they're about 20 miles off of Lanzheng, so right on bottom tip of Cornwall. And you can get a helicopter over from Penzance, think, and there's a boat that goes over from Penzance. And they are beautiful. Once you get down that far in Cornwall anyway, it is beautiful. But for all intents and purposes, you're talking white sand beaches, you're talking turquoise clear water where you can see the bottom of the sea. Unfortunately, you don't get the Caribbean temperatures with it, but.

Okay.

I mean, yeah, it is a superb set of islands that are over there. Essentially, it's apparently where Avalon is meant to be that King Arthur went to after he was killed. Really? That's was the lady of the lake took him away. So they're meant to be the Isles of Avalon.

That's a great start. Okay, have you been before?

I haven't, no, no, no, but it's one of my dad's favorite locations. He goes most years and he goes to the same place every time he goes and he just loves it. And he does hiking, wandering around from aisle to aisle, just, you know, idyllic remote, removed from people. And if you wanted to slow down, it's a perfect place to go. Perfect.

Yeah.

It's high on my list actually, when I go back to UK for a period of time. think Scotland is huge. It's a big country, right? But I think like the, the Northwest part of Scotland, but I think the city I was down the Southwest, I those two with Devon and Cornwall, I think they're definitely up there in my top three or four things to see in UK for sure.

I can, there's a lot of similarities. If you see the pictures of beaches in the far North in Scotland and onto the Isles and so forth. They look quite similar at either ends of the UK. Obviously it's a little bit warmer. Yeah. It's little silly, yeah. Yeah. Definitely advise it. Absolutely advise it. And also just when you come to look up the mythology behind it, cause there's stories that are connected with it. Fascinating. Also really good stuff.

Okay. We'll get that on the go. We'll get a wing in it. Collaboration. You fancy it? Absolutely. Try and that story somewhere. Yeah. Why not? First, I want to do a backstory and early travel memories. Are you initially from the Southwest? And if so, what was travel like? I imagine you might, if you are from the Southwest, you're probably a like Norfolk where I'm from, where a beach is a regular occurrence. Little villages. We have one big city in Norwich, of course, but...

Yeah, I'm up for that, ⁓

There is travel in the county, which I think is quite rare for a lot of people in UK, because they do have to go out maybe towards the coastal areas or somewhere else. So yeah, tell us a bit about that.

So yeah, I mean, you in Norfolk, we're so lucky to live in this part of the world, in Devon and Cornwall, because as I said, we've got beaches all along the coast. So come summertime when I was a kid, what I remember a lot of is heading down to the beach after school or in the summer holiday, going down to the beach and taking, whether it was after school or whether it was in the holidays, taking packed lunches to Aaron and going and sitting on the beach all day and taking the old polystyrene boards, which thankfully nobody uses anymore, and surfing.

jumping in and out of the water and spending days and days on the beach. I mean, we, we, we, as kids were really lucky because we did tend to go on family holidays abroad, which in that we, yeah, we're talking the early eighties, which it was common-ish, it was nowhere near as sort of and easy flights as it is nowadays. we used to spend a little bit of time in the south of France, but I can always remember Greece being taken to Greece a couple of times when I was a kid.

Don't ask me where it was because my geography at that point in time was pretty poor, but I had an obsession with Greek mythology anyway. So yeah, with the Spartans and all that sort of things and the wars of Thermopylae and battles of Thermopylae and all those sorts of things and the Peloponnesian wars. And we got taken to Greece and shown around all these ancient monuments. And I remember just being absolutely caught up in the stories that were.

were in these places and the history that was in these places. And of course, in a kid's mind, you still got Minotaurs wandering around the place. You still got heroes like Achilles and everything wandering around everywhere. To be taken somewhere that was so different when you're that age and you still got those stories running around your head is really inspirational. It really fed my love for stories and really helped to build that mind map of how the world looks. It was

I used to love it. And then we'd again spend a lot of time on beaches knowing that you would, I mean, we'd come back absolutely suntanned from top to bottom and having spent days and days in swimming pools and the sea, around monuments and yeah, so we were very lucky. We were very lucky as kids.

No.

I think when I was younger, I don't know if you had this sense, but I was obsessed with trying to find paradise. I think I still am actually. Mainly from the Tom and Jerry episode when they go to Hawaii. Cause we didn't travel at all when we were younger, Very poor. Travel was not a thing apart from the odd caravan trip, which would probably be North, not South. ⁓ When I used to watch Tom and Jerry, I don't know you know Tom and Jerry that well. I don't know. I'm not an expert anymore, but

I do remember that episode where he goes to Hawaii, where they go, Tom and Joe go to Hawaii and it's got that Hawaiian music in the background. It's got that like caricature, like golden sand beach. I'm like, ⁓ is there anyone in the world that is like that? Yeah. All that sort of stuff. Yeah. All the dancing. Ever since then, I guess early doors, had that sort of in the back of mind, like, wonder where paradise would be on earth. So I think I'm still trying to find it. The closest place I've found so far is Cook Islands. I think that's got to be the closest place.

Where can you remember going then as a kid? I mean, when was your first like travel experience where you thought, actually, I quite like this. Cause obviously you've made, we've both made careers out of traveling.

Yeah. Well, as a kid, I'd have to say nowhere. think we used go to like places like Skegness, which are, yeah, in case you've got any Skegness listeners, they're okay. Like it's a thing, but Yarmouth to Skegness is not much different. So in looking back, I think it's like, it's the same same. So I didn't really think there was a thing, but I do remember we did go to Cornwall once. That must've been early, mid nineties. I don't remember too much, but I remember driving down and I remember it was so green.

And so far away, right? It's like four or five hours away. But I think that probably early doors had something, but if you want to know like a first trip, I went to the classic school trips, the history trips, history, which was in Germany and Belgium predominantly. said before, it's like, you're just trying to hook up with your fellow classmates, aren't you? But there is something in that where the travel aspect is going on the coach and getting off and then being told something, right? Is that sort of.

Yeah.

I don't know, five days trying to do that. And then in sixth form, think properly travel where I went to Germany again, Berlin it was and Cologne. I think that was a trip where I thought, do you know what? This seems pretty cool.

I don't know whether you agree as well, but you know, on these sorts of trips that I used to go in particular schools when you were away, one of the things that I used to love was going to supermarkets. still kind of do like supermarkets because everything was different. know, different brands of sweets or whatever it was when you were a kid or different. Now you'd have look at different brands of beer that you can buy it all. But that sort of, they like encapsulate a different world. If you like the shops and the supermarkets and I kind of like that.

Yeah,

That feeling, I still like going to food markets that way wherever I go, I kind of look for a market to kind of have a wonder around. I do like going to supermarkets and something about it. Yeah, there is something about it.

Yeah.

for Belgium, they're drinking ages 16. So when we went at 15, you're not like too far away from maybe getting away with it. So that was part of the game as well, trying to buy beer and like we used to buy beer and stash it in the, I guess we stayed in the hostel, suppose, back in the day. And then kind of drink, but like, you know, when the teachers aren't looking, but they're getting pissed as well. like, yeah, it's all big piss up really, isn't it?

Paris many, many years ago and they were obviously still francs then and not euros. So ⁓ it turned out that a one franc coin, which is probably an equivalent to 50p, 60p, was the same size as the old five P's and vendor machines, which sold alcohol at that point didn't know.

yeah.

Okay.

the difference between the two. So we were taking five peas in and getting cans of beer out of the bottom and hiding it like you did from your teachers. Then as soon as the teachers went to bed, everybody sort of got a big beer stash going on somewhere.

a long time ago and I know think about it. Bloody hell. Yeah.

Imagine going around Europe, having to deal with like half a dozen, you 10 currencies if you go to 10 countries. My boy.

Yeah, yeah.

also the teachers like dealing with yeah sort of like 14, 15, 16 year old kids. I bloody hell, where do you start with that?

No, like that's off to any teachers, any teachers, You're a cracking job and I don't envy you at all.

Yeah

No, absolutely not. But I think the, uh, the sixth form trip when you're a bit more worldly, think that's a, that's a good trip to do. And I think, yeah, that kind of stemmed from that. But I wasn't really into travel though. It wasn't not like now. It wasn't like a thing. I think music was my thing. So I got into music college, like straight after sixth form, right? Well, after a year, um, I think I was very much on that track. Not travel. Yeah. That only switched during my degree, uh, when I went to Australia.

So Australia is probably the first place where I thought, wow, I actually can't believe I'm seeing this and it's all new and seems to be done correctly and hot and yeah, crazy.

Different. Very different.

Yeah, same same at the same time, right? You've got the English spoken there, they watch cricket, they seem to be doing stuff that we do, but maybe it's a little bit better. That's what I thought at the time. Yeah.

It's a great way of getting out there to explore the world and noticing the differences. it's the differences within a comfort zone that help you to sort of develop that level of thinking. think you always need something to cling onto sometimes. When you first start traveling. Yeah. I can't imagine being, so for instance, you imagine if your first trip would be in India. Right. I mean, can you imagine going from as a sort of a Brit going your first trip, first time you go abroad and landing in the middle of where we were, Bangalore for instance. like, would just blow your mind, wouldn't it?

where I know you said you loved the Greece trips and the France, South of France trips. What about, was that trip maybe by yourself or when you were older, we thought actually I do love travel as a thing and I want to do more of it or try and incorporate it into my life or career.

mean, the trip that kind of inspired the love of actually traveling, was, so I went to uni and studied at uni for almost five years. I think it took me to do my degree in hotel and catering. then for a few years after that, sort of stayed working around that neck of the woods and didn't go abroad from when I left home until I was about 26, 27, I suppose. Cause you know, wrapped up in what you were doing.

Yeah.

There was no, there was internet, but it was internet cafes and I mean, not a lot of people were on the internet yet. It was still a little bit hit and miss as to whether people were on it or not. And I think I jumped on the train in London, went on the Europe tunnel over to Gardenaude and then traveled down through France, down to Toulouse, over to the coast and then across the North of Spain, down through Portugal. The idea was to go and do a complete loop all the way around Europe, know, sort of take in Italy and then Greece and then come back up through.

Texas, back here into Poland, back through Germany, stop at the obligatory Amsterdam on the way home and then come back to the UK. But I got as far as going down to Toulouse, across the bay on the down across the North of Spain, down through Portugal, back up through Portugal and got back into, through South of France and into Italy. And I just love Italy so much that I stayed there. I didn't go anywhere after that. That's I just traveled around different places in Italy for the.

The remainder of the time that I had on my, my Interrail ticket, it was very difficult to book or challenging to book things in advance. You would turn up in a city on the day that you were staying there without having anything booked. And then you, the first thing you did when you got off the train was right, I've to and find a hostel to stay in. I've got to go and find somewhere to stay in. And you know, there was nights where I was on the verge of sleeping in train stations on a verge of sleeping on park benches. then it just occurred at the last minute, which was just.

You didn't think we're going to happen. Your brain's automatically assuming the worst and then something out of nowhere creeps up and shows itself. It's where I of found my overarching belief that generally speaking, most people are good people. Most people want to help you. Most people want to do what they can to sort you out. And I remember the old ladies who have sort of gone, no, this isn't the way you need to go when I've asked them directions and refused to not come with me to make sure that I got there safely.

people who were just about to close, who had a friend who owned a hostel, who knew somebody who had a hostel and they phoned them. And then at the last minute I've managed to get a bed in a hostel. There are instances like that, sort of garner that intrigue about other people's lives, garner the intrigue about what's in different places and then give you that love of traveling and not quite knowing what's around the next corner. And I think the other thing that that inspired was ⁓ a building of confidence in yourself.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah.

Because you don't know how you're going to deal with every situation. You don't know what you're going to come up against. You don't know what the challenges are going to be. And when you come out the other side of them, nine times out of 10, pretty much unscathed, you said, I dealt with it. I can deal with stuff that occurs at the last minute. It's a really big confidence builder for when you're that sort of age and when you're in your mid twenties to know that you can step outside your comfort zone. And particularly for me at that point, because

I, mean, we talked about accessibility, so I have a paralyzed leg and I walk with crutches. So I was doing the interrail with the pair of crutches and a backpack and everything else and sort of, you know, I wasn't sure what I could and couldn't do. And to be able to put myself in those situations and to be able to, to, you know, find a bed for the night, develop relationships with different people who maybe didn't speak your language or only spoke, you only spoke partial bits of each other's languages was, it's really liberating.

was really liberating for me. It just inspired my love. When I came back full of beans, have that injection of confidence that sort of pushes you to do more.

Of course I-

Yeah.

Yeah.

I fell in love with Florence on that trip. don't know if you've ever been to Florence. Beautiful place. turned up and that was one of the nights where I was really thinking I'm going to have to sleep in Florence Central Station. Right at the last minute, somebody knew somebody who knew somebody who knew somebody who got me a bed in a hostel and they literally put another bed in the hostel for me. And then within three or four days of staying in there and

I'm

Yeah. Being part of the group of people that were in this hostel, I was helping to host the tours, the trips around for the new people that were coming into the hostel. then, know, was sort of this thing within the hostel. If you'd been there for three or four days, because you'd been there so intensely, it sort of brought you along and you could be part of the host for the tour for the people that are just coming and turned up in Florence that day.

crazy. Yeah, it's amazing. I love the sense of adventure. think, I don't know if we lose that anymore because of internet. I don't know if that's like an old person's thing to say, but if you think about it, can you go anywhere now where internet is not that big or that accessible and have that adventure where you're going to have to turn up and do what you did 20 years ago or more than 20 years ago and just wing it a little bit and hope that speaking to people will get you somewhere, get you a bed. Can you do it anymore? Is that possible?

I mean, the last time I did anything like that, that was close enough that didn't bulk the internet was in Cuba.

okay. Yes. Yes, I write.

point, it was about 10 or 12 years ago and there wasn't a great internet connection there and there wasn't, you know, had to stand outside a hotel if you wanted internet connection and a lot of people still didn't have internet over there. And that was the closest we got. And again, it was people, yeah, we booked the initial place where we were staying and then it was people knowing people, knowing people and then people putting you in touch with those people so that they could put you in a taxi and that taxi will go around, pick other people up and then take you all to that place that you were going to. you know, we stayed in the

third cousin wants removed as the person we'd originally stayed with. I think you're right. mean, the adventure that you had back when there was no mobile phones perhaps isn't there, there's still a lot that requires doing and still a lot of adventure to be had out there, whether or not you've got a mobile phone attached to you. Yeah. My first experience of it was around Europe, which is relatively tame really. mean, you know, once you try

It's bit

travel tale.

But I mean, if you go to Africa, even if you've got a mobile phone, you start traveling around Sub-Saharan Africa, you're probably going to come up to a lot of adventures and lot of having to wing it a little bit, I'm sure.

Yeah. ⁓ I did talk quite a bit in podcasts about that. Can you recreate the old times? Maybe it's just time to move on. Maybe we take that as a period of time and, and now we move on to the next period, which is an interesting part of travel. But I'll come back to that actually. But before we go to that, you mentioned your leg. Now this is obviously a big part of your message as a writer, as a YouTuber, whatever you do creatively is about accessible travel. So can you talk to us a little bit about your background with that? And you mentioned your leg, like what happened there?

and how that has influenced your travels now.

Yeah, out.

I've got grey beard so I can't really speak.

So

And I'm so very blessed with that. then moving on from there, got orthotics built to support the use of my right leg. So I a full leg brace, which locks at the knee. So I no muscle use in the right leg at all. And I've got full sensation, but no use of it. So it locks, so it locks straight, which means that it's fine, you know, walking around the house and things like that. But when you come to walking hills, or when you come to walking uneven ground, or when it comes to walking distances, or when you come to anything like that, it becomes really quite tricky.

So when I'm doing that, walk with crutches. So it's quite a big thing to hit you when you're 18. It's like, yeah, when you're 18, you kind of don't know who you are anyway. And you're kind of just working the world out and working out where you fit in it. And then suddenly you have this big thing that comes up in your life and it changes who you thought you were in the first place. Even when you didn't know where you're going or who you would be coming or anything like that. So it's quite a big shock to the system. But as I said, when I got to...

got to go out on the trains and got to go to do the interrail. It was a real confidence boost, a real confidence boost for me to know that I could go and do it. I mean, I had no idea how I was going to do it. I had idea if I could do it. It was just, I knew that I had to go do something that would make me feel independent. That would make me feel a little bit liberated. think I've said before, And then.

Ever since that, sense of achievement and confidence that I get from traveling hasn't ceased, it hasn't stopped. So every time I get back, I'm buzzing. And it's not just now from traveling with a disability, but just because of the love of traveling and seeing different people, different cultures, different places, different foods, all those sorts of things. But this is why I have focused, or part of my work is focused on accessible travel.

purely for that reason, it's because it can liberate your mind. you know, so much about what you are able to do is down to mindset. Everybody has, yeah, mean, disabled people who have some form of physical disability, some have mental disability, but your mindset is a huge influence on what you can and can't achieve. And a lot of the time, like I was, I was perceiving that I was limited in what I could do. I could no longer do, I could no longer.

played football, I could no longer do this. I could no longer do that. I could no longer walk unaided. And these are the things you kind of get told when these things happen to you. And let's not forget the majority of people who are disabled become disabled at some point. They don't start their life disabled. The majority of people become disabled. So there's always that shift from being able to do something, or not always, but there's that shift from being able to do something to suddenly not being able to do it. I mean, I can remember a doctor telling me or telling my mom and dad in front of me that

Yes.

he's not going to be able to walk again. And that's, that's huge. And if you're sitting in the background, you you believe what the guy in the white coat said, because you trust the guy and that immediately sets your, your mindset for what is possible. And I think that limitation is something that I strive to break. I was driven to break and it's broken for me in what I've done personally. And then I would strive to break for other people by saying, look,

It's a little bit of reassurance if I can write about what is there, what isn't there, then you know about some of the challenges you may come up against. know about some of the difficulties you may come up against, but if I can do it, you know, you can do it. There's something that you can do here that helps to push your boundaries where you can go and explore what you can do, what you're capable of. I think it's really important.

such an underrated point that about the mental side, because from someone who's not experienced it, I can't imagine in a minute, I've got close one time, I think, but, you think, cause there's not a ramp going up to, I don't know, a building or you think, you think that level is, is a problem, but actually is actually a step before, it? Where you mentioned that people are probably just sitting at home and thinking they can't do it, or even trying maybe, or trying to see if they can do it. So that is the first step.

is mentally, I guess you've got to just bite the bullet and go for somewhere. Maybe like just try and give it a go. Like you never know unless you try, right? But I guess it's such a big step to get from maybe you're sitting in your house or you're just not in a good place because you think you can't, can't go anywhere to making that step to booking somewhere and giving it a go. If it doesn't work out, at least you tried, right? But you got to do that first step, haven't you?

Yeah, you have got to that first step. Definitely. And I think, you know, a lot of it comes with confidence in yourself and self-perception because your perception of who you are massively changes when something like that hits you. I mean, I'm quite lucky with the disability that I have in that I'm still capable of moving around. And some people have far more limitations than I have. But until your mindset switches, you can self limit what you can do.

And I mean, everything that we have in the UK anyway, so, know, benefit system and so forth, but with regards to disability, living in marriage relies on the person proving what they can't do. you psychologically, you have to be able to get benefits. It's insane. This is a whole different conversation, but it's insane that you, to get the aid that you require to help you move forward, you have to prove that you can't do stuff. Which.

day.

Mm-hmm.

That's a classic phrase.

negative mindset, right? Yeah.

So I mean, if you, I've got to prove this, I've got to prove, I don't want to get caught doing this because they might say my benefit way or they might do this or they might do that. know, it's just madness. I mean, it's, it should be flipped on his head. should be looked at, you know, what, can we help you do more? How can we build your confidence up? How can we help you to broaden your horizons? What would you like to do? Those questions that are focused on what is possible as opposed to what's impossible is

It's a much better way to go. You've got to be, I think the confidence thing comes into it because I think you have to be prepared to not be able to do something to get there and to not be able to do it and to know that. mean, you know, if I walk up, mean, I'm wearing shorts today and you still get it now where I'll go into the shops and I wear a big brace on my leg. So kids stare. And they, they will do, but that's fine by me because.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, to be fair, if I was a kid and I saw somebody walking past with my brace on my leg, I would probably look. And I would rather, you know, it's the openness. If we see more of it, if we see more wheelchair use, we see more brace use, we see more of this stuff on TV and in TV, films, in programs, then it becomes less unusual and people will feel more comfortable to go out there and to push their boundaries and to start that process of building their confidence.

Yeah. Cause I interviewed Renee Bruns. She, uh, has been to 150 countries as a wheelchair user. Um, I think she might have a Guinness world record potentially for some of the countries you traveled to or the mountain that she's traveled to. Um, and that was an interesting conversation because I think she was similar to you, like happened really early on. So it's that mindset shift and they start, think they're still trying to work out what's wrong with her leg, but, she has to do the whole wheelchair thing. Right. And it's just interesting that.

She was like, no, I'm going to almost say as a positive thing, it's a new thing. I'm going to use it and change that mindset from what you just described, people who may be trying to claim the benefit, which is understandable because people need money to live. But actually now I'm going to flip it and make it part of my life and part of me. And that's exactly what she has done. She traveled to so many countries like this. It's incredible really. It's quite inspiring.

is inspiring and that's exactly it. It's, it's mindset, you know, the manifestation of a physical disability is, what it is. Yeah. But you've got two, you've got a choice of how, well, she's had a choice of how she looks at it and that's, that's either positively or negatively and she's chosen to go, to go that route and that's, that's the inspirational stuff. So, mean, there's loads of people out there doing what I do and they're doing it with like, let's say wheelchairs and things like that that have, you know, I walk with crutches.

wheelchairs is another level entirely. But what it does do is it means we appreciate the difficulties that are inherent in certain situations, irrespective of whether it affects us directly or not, because we always perceive things from a slightly different perspective. look at it from, you know, I might easily skip upstairs on my crutches, but I'll be keeping an eye out for where that ramp is or, you know, is there trip hazards on the way up, whatever it might be.

because that's, that's in my head.

And also, yeah, I've got question about that because we, said in the bio that, well, close to the bio, we met in India. So Matt and I, bit context here for the listener. We're both on a press trip in India, earlier this year in Bangalore. And we weren't in the same group at the start, but towards the end, we were part of the media group. So we kind of got separated from the travel agents and destinations and stuff. And we kind of had a few days exploring. I actually wanted to ask you, I'll set the scene and I to ask you what happened. The scene was we had this Indian.

politician minister come in and what happens in India is they are followed by like a hundred people. And when they turn up in a car, everyone gets out of the way. There's cameras, there's everything. It's quite a big thing. It's like a celebrity basically. And what happens is we have this big expo hall. I think me and Matt are maybe outside and you sort of drift off and this guy walks in. And next thing I see is that, you this guy is slightly important. This minister guy. I see Matt in conversation with him like, Oh, what's going on here? So I start taking a few photos.

which you asked to do anyway, think, asked me to do. But you're in deep conversation with the minister. I can't remember his name or what part of the whole thing he's part of, but like it's quite deep and he seemed to take you quite seriously because I think he went to one of his aides and told him to do something or write something down. So what was that conversation about that everyone saw this swarm of people with you and this minister in the middle?

Yeah, it was quite weird. suddenly got all his TV cameras pointed at me. I can't remember his exact position, but he was like the second in charge of Karnataka or something like that, wasn't he? think he was. so at World UTM in London in November before the Karnataka representatives had been, had been a sarcastic as the region in India that we were at. they invited us to a media thing in the evening.

And we sat there and I was asking questions specifically about, they were talking about promoting Kinect as a destination. And I was asking specific questions about, what are they doing to help people with accessibility and mobility issues with regards to, if they're pushing it, this is a brilliant market for them to be aiming at because it's, if, other than the fact that it's a morally great thing to do, it's also got a lot of, I mean, you're talking trillions of pounds worldwide.

the contribution of disabled travel or mobility reduced travel to the travel industry every year. so they didn't, to be honest, they didn't have the greatest answer at the time and he just made some notes. And it was him that introduced me then to the minister. And he said, this is the man that I was talking to you about who asked the questions about accessible travel when we were at WTM. And that's when the minister stopped and had a chat. And that's what we were talking about. We were talking about.

He's obviously kind of out of it. I think it was the first expo that they'd done for a while.

Yeah, it's been a while I think, yeah.

Yeah. And they were talking about how they could push it and that's what he wanted to talk about. And he wanted to assure me that they were, they were building in accessibility to their plan in India. And I mean, you know, India, there'll be some big challenges in doing that. It's massive place. And there's going to be some big challenges in doing it, but it's great that it's on their agenda to do it. There was a genuine feeling that they wanted to.

Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

add that into their plan and make that part of how they were going to develop their tourism in Karnataka. Which is fantastic. That's a weakness.

And they're really pushing that state. think that's why we're there because they've decided that India gets all the highlights of Delhi, Agra, Taj Mahal, Goa. But I think they really want to concentrate on their state and pushing that. That's why I invited a few media people. I guess they'll do the same next year and probably invite more, I'd imagine. And as we're here, yeah, yeah. I was going to say, as we're here in India on this conversation, we both went on separate trips. So what happens is we, I think there's like four maybe, four trips. When we sign up.

See you there, good.

and get invited, we get to choose one. And we chose different ones. And I think we chose a very different experience each. So how was your experience? And what did you see on your little mini trip before we met up at the end for the expo?

Okay, so do we talk about the organization of the

You go as PC, general, as diplomatic, whatever you want. Yeah. I don't know what you saw, what the aim was to see. So I'm keen to see and hear what you got to.

trip was based around, it was called the heritage trip. So we went deep into the heart of Karnataka. India's history is just, mean, India is a huge country in the first place. I Karnataka state, the state that we were in, the size of the UK, and has the same population as the UK. And it's one state. It's certainly a small part of a massive country. And even within that state, the range and variation of history is

Yeah

Massive. I've been there before, I had been there before, which is one of the reasons why I was interested to go back and see what developments they've made there. But I mean, the place itself is a city the size of, know, Exeter, Plymouth size, different ruins, different areas, different palaces, different temples, different, all sorts of bath houses, markets dotted around this massive area. And it is fascinating, just the depth and the scale of the history that is there.

And the stories that go with it, again, go back to my love of mythology, that sort of stuff. It's such an engaging place. And, you know, I kind of long in those moments to wander into those temples and just get left behind by the group so that everybody's home and you get that sort of Indiana Jones moment where you're in a temple by yourself. It has that feel to it. And I loved it. I love India anyway. It's such a vibrant and varied place. But that trip was superb.

I'm trying to think how to put it. We all really appreciated the fact that we were there. We all really appreciated the fact that we were being taken to these wonderful places and being given the time to go there. the organization of it was just hilarious at times. I mean, we were giving our bus driver directions from our phones so that we didn't get lost anymore. Yeah, it was fun. It was fun.

wow.

But I yours was more, you were more in the, in the jungle side of it.

Yeah, we chose the wildlife and I think it's like coffee hill station. That's what the label does. So that was the Nagahole National Park to see the tigers and some coffee hill stations with views. So much more nature. Yeah.

Korg, yeah, yeah. mean, the comeback from ours is, I talked to them the other day about it, we're staying in five star luxury hotels. They're like, unbelievable. Like in Korg it is, in the Hills, you've got your own villa. Like the view is insane. But I actually had to stay in the homestay because they ran out of space. So talk about organization, right? We have 24 people in. They're like, hey, look, we've only got 22 rooms. So either people got to share, which people are not wanting to do.

Or a couple of people got to go down to the homestay further down the road. So I said, I'll go homestay. I've stayed in before. I don't mind. And actually turned out to be amazing. The homestay was incredible. Luxury homestay, I must say. But the problem I found was that we were staying in luxury hotels, but being traveled by like a school bus. So we had this weird mix of these like blue curtains that you get from school on the bus. Kind of traveling for five, six hours a day in the bus. And you don't really get to see much because.

Same.

India doesn't really work on time. So you're leaving at eight. Okay. No, it's half nine. So you lost an hour and a half. It's taken an extra hour and half anyway on the road because it's so busy or it's a slow. So I think the organization in terms of logistics was quite poor because I felt like they didn't understand their own state in terms of how long it takes to get somewhere, the road conditions and just a general planning of it. So our experience was interesting.

100%. I mean, the first day before the driver got lost for the first time, we were meant to be stopping at a temple on the way before lunch. And we left quite early in the morning, I think seven o'clock in the morning. And we kept driving and driving and driving. got closer and closer to lunchtime. And we said to the guy, like, here's your itinerary. Weren't we meant to be stopping at the temple? He said, ⁓ yes, we were meant to be stopping for a temple, but it's closed today. So we're not going there.

I didn't even know that it was closed. It's the thing with press trips. One of the things I love most about countries, I don't know about you, is getting in amongst people. And we were driving past these like marketplaces, I've said markets again, marketplaces and streets where streets are laden with umbrellas going down inside road stalls and people everywhere. The colours of India with the sari's and everything like that are just brilliant.

And we were driving past it and we're going to a temple, which is great. The temple is great. Don't get me wrong, but to spend an hour amongst the marketplace with all the people going around all the sites and the smells and, you know, buying the old bit of street food here and there. I think that's where experiences really, really happened. But the history side of it, I love as well anyway, and the stories that are attached to it. But I think they could have mixed it up a little bit more for us.

Just going to stop you right there. Matt Dennis, what a guy. Some great chat in the first half of this podcast episode. But before we crack on with the second half, if you could take a minute to rate and review the podcast on Apple podcasts or Spotify or any podcast app that you use, the five stars would really help this podcast gain a bit of traction and it's free. And why not? Alternatively, you can buy me a coffee using the link in the show notes. If not go to buymeacoffee.com and it's winging it is the person to search for.

For $5 you can support this podcast and me produce some quality content every week for you and keep the podcast running smoothly. And finally, the third thing before we crack on with Matt's awesome podcast episode, tell your friends about Winging It Travel podcast. The best way to spread the word about the podcast is word of mouth. Tell your friends, tell them to listen in, choose one of the three episodes, the set of episodes, the guest episodes like today, all the raw immersive audio cinematic episodes, and hopefully they'll like it and come back for some more. That's enough of me rattling on.

Let's get back to Matt and this awesome podcast episode.

So Korg, you went to Korg. Now there's a Korg race of people, are entirely separate from the other Indo cultures around India. Like entirely separate. And it's like, yeah, the Scottish not being part of the, of England, like the, of the old Celts, that they were there originally, the Korg people, but there was none of that, that was part of your trip, I don't think, was it?

No, and interesting you say that because we got a part of that at the homestay. So, um, the mother and son who owns the homestay, when they invited us in, they got told last minute, obviously that we're come to stay. So there's no one there actually. It was just a, me and a guy called Fred, we're staying in a room each and, like, ah, do you want some food? I'll make some tea. And we sat down and they just talked to us about the core people. had no idea, completely unaware about any history really of that place.

But I think we got more of an understanding about the people and the culture and the son next morning took us in his Jeep to his land and he explained a few things about what they can grow there. And Gordon Ramsey filmed his Uncharted episode there when he cooked in India. So very prestigious, but I don't think the rest of the group in Tomorrow Hotel and Coorg got any of that. They just got taken to this luxury resort, villas, spas, whatever they're doing, swimming pools. And that's great, but they got no culture out It is great. Yeah.

But yeah, like you say, I mean, you've got that experience, which is, which, yeah.

Did you on your trip find there's a difference between the media contingent as opposed to the, but the travel agent destination contingent. And what I mean by that is like you said about the markets, I think there's four of us on this. So it's me, Rosie, David and Ludovica, right? We're the four media people on our trip and we're all itching to get into like markets and local areas and in amongst the people, right?

But that's not really what you have a lot want because they're not trying to sell that really as part of it, but they're trying to sell the hotel or see if the hotel can be part of their package, right? Cause they've got luxury clients. So we had this like push and pull where, yeah, we're driving past like, can we, can we stop there? No, no crack onto next hotel. Right. It's that sort of yin and yang of, of the trip. Did you have that as well?

Exactly the same, exactly the same as ours. I mean, there wasn't as many media people on our trip. think there were only two, maybe three of us tops out of the 20 people on our trip that were media. And fair enough, because they want to bring more people there, they want to encourage the tour agents and everything to make reservations and bring lot more people over there. And they are focused on where they can send people to stay. that person is good enough, and then allow the people who

are in those hotels to organize the day trips and the excursions for them. So perhaps I think they're more focused. It's an odd mix. They almost would have done better to do like a media session in a travel agent session. ⁓

different purpose right?

Yeah, we some interesting conversations. So we all met for the first time at the Taj, which is on the outskirts of Bangalore. Not the one in the center. We meet the group, we say hi and bye and to our guys, people who organize it we've gotten the coach. the first thing they tell us, better mind this is a wildlife tour, is that, yeah, your two day, three session wildlife safari has been canceled.

What?

And someone said, so what's in this place? Like, ⁓ we don't know yet. We haven't got a chance to figure it out. So for the minute, there's no wildlife stuff and people already kicking off the first five minutes. going, well, hang on a minute. Well, we chose this particular thing to see the tigers. Yeah. So they gave an excuse about the government has booked what we were doing for some delegation or experience for ministers, whatever it was. we couldn't go to the original plan.

Because of that.

And then in the end, they got us into Nogahole National Park for one session, which we thought would be three hours. It turned out to be an hour and a half. And we saw no tigers and we saw some wild elephants, which was the saving grace, but no tigers. So, um, that was a bit of unfortunate experience, but in a weird way, I, I feel bad complaining because it's a free trip and it's a trip to see all the stuff that I didn't have a chance to see three weeks before that. So I was kind of a bit more.

a little bit laid back about it, but I think some people in the group were really like emotional because they can't then sell it as a package because they haven't seen it. So I think for them, it's a, it's a more of a pressing issue because

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I agree. mean, for me, mean, they say if it does feel odd to complain about it because like anything, makes her a good story in retrospect anyway, particularly when you're from the media side of it, because it doesn't matter if things go wrong because that's part of the fun of it. Yeah. It's happening. it was, I mean, let's face it. I mean, India is a bit chaotic anyway, isn't it? They did what it said on a tid.

So I think-

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I'll say to David, I told him three months last time and I don't think anything was ever on time. Barely. It's full of people all the time. Things get canceled. For me, I was just kind of like, yeah, so what? I guess the only thing I got annoyed was the bus journeys. think, yeah, it's long. Cause at least when I traveled, I was taking trains, which is a different experience. But yeah, I was still like, this is India.

Travelling by train is still one of the worst experiences of my life in India. actually it wasn't travelling by train, it was waiting for a train.

and then get on the train as stressful as...

Okay.

think was early October, so it's just as it switches over from wet to dry season, everything, particularly in the south. Really humid. mean, really humid. As soon as you walked out the door of where we were staying, you were drenched in sweat immediately. It was all you could do to drink enough water to keep up with the rate at which you're sweating. We got to this train station and this train that we booked was delayed by about four hours. You've been to Indian train stations, there is no aircon. There is probably about half a dozen seats for a train of about a million people.

And there was bodies everywhere, people slightly sleeping on the floor, everything everywhere. No air, 38, 40 degree heat of just under nearly a hundred percent humidity. It was just like walking through butter. It was so uncomfortable and just hideous. is definitely the most uncomfortable I've ever been anywhere. And then thankfully you get onto the train like four hours after you've been there and just stick your head out the window.

She tripped it off.

I have some air. I have some air.

That's why you see those social media videos. It's not to get the content of going past like a tea plantation. It's to get the wind in the air because you're so hot.

Those things like, this is probably a bit, I don't know. Did you ever watch the young ones? No. You did not? Oh, bad. There's a scene for those listeners out there who have watched it where they're on their way to university challenge and Vivian sticks his head out of the window. He tries to I why, wonder why we have to, why there's a side shade? Don't put your head out the window. And then his head gets chopped off by a... It tries to Yeah.

I did not know.

Sorry, little random aside there of having the flashes back into my head.

Yeah. Someone will absolutely love that. ⁓ it's kind of lost on me, unfortunately. Sorry. Yeah. Okay. India. Yeah. Great place. yeah. That's another conversation. think maybe we can do one in India. Maybe there'll be another episode. That'd be great. If we dive into our own experiences from before, that'd be pretty cool. I've got some accessible travel questions, should I say. ⁓ they're kind of like what people might be thinking, they might want to ask you. And this is what maybe you're right about. And we'll come to your.

you're writing in a bit. So first I want to actually ask is, is there places in the world just is easy to travel for accessibility and maybe like a top three that you've experienced and is there maybe three places you've traveled to that just do not counter for any accessibility?

I mean, it's difficult to generalize. you're in Western Europe, it's generally well provided for and it's getting better all the time. The newer cities particularly, whereas older cities still struggle a little bit, Naples is still a bit of a challenge. Whereas Florence is quite well looked after and maintained and it's quite easy to get in and out of places.

I mean, so, I mean, some of the big challenges that you face is obviously getting into buildings, whether it be shops, whether it be monuments and being able to maneuver around those buildings or maneuver around those places. Public conveniences, toilets are a huge, a huge one. I mean, it's something that, that, that the able-bodied people really take for granted because, know, you can pop into a, into a cafe and you can pop into wherever, know, public toilets.

But if there's no public toilets that are set up for wheelchair use, example, then you're relying on a big chain hotel or a McDonald's. And those are kind of like, to have that thought in the back of your mind that you never know whether you're going to be able to use the bathroom. That's stressful. That's huge. It is stressful. you know, in the Western world, they're

Okay.

There are answers to a lot of those questions where you can go to like your Ibis hotel or something like that and use those ones, but on the whole public conveniences are pretty good. Accessibility is on the whole not too bad. You can't say that with any sweeping generalisation. There's always going to be instances in which you're going to be stuck. Research is always the big one. Don't get put off by a place.

without actually having done the research and there are loads of forums. There will generally always be somebody who's been there before you that can, that will give you some information or you can find some information on it on the internet. And this is what I'm doing. So I'm building on my website slowly and surely. And when I get around to writing, it's like a destination guide. So everywhere that I go reporting on each of the destinations that I go and discussing a general overview of the facilities that are there to meet disabled people's needs. think Canada, Canada was very well set up.

So Whistler, for example, Oh yeah, I it was there in December. Yeah. Yeah. To stop the road from you guys. So I went with Whistler Adaptive, they provide lots of different facilities for skiers and cyclists and hikers and all sorts of stuff. And Whistler is brilliantly set up. Yeah. Roll on, roll off cable cars to get up to the mountain stations, support the public toilets, all those sorts of things. Restaurants are all accessible. So.

Loosely turned Western world countries are generally getting better and improving all the time. There's a lot of catching up to be done in some places and older cities are always more of a challenge. So like I say, Napoli Naples is difficult because of the nature of the buildings. They can't adapt it as easily as it, let's just put in a ramp out front to a restaurant, which is over four floors with a spiral staircase in the corner. Yeah, there's real challenges there. Changes are starting to happen.

more and more and more, it's becoming built into new constructs. And I mean, a great example of a town, an old town that has made steps forward is Béziers in the south of France. It's just down the road from Montpellier. And it's an old hill town and despite being cobbled, so you're not going to get over that. There's still challenges there. They put a lot of good facilities into place. There's a new started around the place, which are accessible. There's a lot of drop curbs.

The traffic lights, they make noises and they vibrate so that deaf and blind people can use them as well. They have built and constructed a fully accessible walkway, which will take you all the way through the medieval town, down past the cathedral lifts down onto a viewing platform out across the valley. And then another lift down to a wooden platform which rolls down around the edge of the town and around the edge of the cathedral all the way down into the old town. And then you can roll straight across over the old ancient bridge all the way up.

into the canals on the other side of the city, all of which is accessible. And even when you go down to the canals, they've got, they've got points where you can, ⁓ if you are struggling with the slight incline, you can press the point and they'll send electric cars down to pick you up.

and saying that's next level.

They're really good. It's just about joined up thinking at the end of the day and they've done it really well because I mean, the other thing that comes into this is that, and we think about, so for example, me with my crutches or wheelchair user or blind person or deaf person, but there's also, you become less mobile as you get older naturally anyway. And this is one of the things that I think people don't always take into account when they're constructing these things is that you're actually doing something for a market.

that will involve you later down the line. Will be you. You will be less stable on your feet. You will be less able to move than you were before. You will need somebody to help you at some point in time. Unless they suddenly cure aging, you know. Yeah. West of Western world. Definitely Western world. The places that are developing are in a really good place. They've got the opportunity to build into their system. So I went to Albania last year.

Yes.

I think they're working on it.

Yeah, of course, yeah.

It can be built into it. this is, know, so Ivory Coast was another great example where I went recently that they are trying to push their market and it isn't accessible at the moment. There are bits of it that are, but by and large it's not. But because they're trying to push the tourist industry, they can build into what they're developing and make themselves real leaders. So it's, I think there's opportunity there for countries that are developing to lead the way.

I'll

Probably more so in some of the countries that are already sort of built all that stuff in the eighties and the nineties and the noughties.

This is like the research questions. I've got a question like, do you research and plan your destinations based on accessibility? are you, that's one question, but are you also intrigued by like East Asia? I'm thinking like Korea, even China, Japan, these super built up areas. And you kind of think they do things really well, whether it's like trains or buildings and like, have they taken that into account or on your research have you seen?

anything that might suggest that it's a really good country to travel to if you've got accessibility problems or...

You

know, James, I haven't traveled much of Southeast Asia. It's one area that I've been limited in my travels on. the furthest east. Yeah. So the furthest east I've gone so far is India. Right. So once it goes past that, I'm pretty limited in my knowledge. I don't know about your experiences there, but I would imagine China and some of the new Chinese cities are pretty developed. Yeah.

Alright, okay.

Gotta be... ...but accessible though.

would imagine they could have built in their quite a forward thinking. So it goes back to that, think at the end of the day, know, that morally obviously it's the right thing to do. ⁓ But let's face it, know, businesses are going to want to resolve out of it. They're going to want to see their money back. And the fact is that it does produce, I think it's something like for every pound invested, get that four pounds back on return at the end of the day on investments into infrastructure that enables

⁓ disabled travel. that sort of statistics like that, need to be wider, more widely understood and more widely acknowledged or encourage companies, countries that are developing companies in them when they are constructing this thing, that it is an investment that makes financial sense as well as moral sense.

And also these countries have a huge old population. Think of like China and Japan. They've got so many old people. Like, we're not talking 60, 70 year olds. We're talking like 80, 90, 100 year olds. There's loads of them.

know, Chepinah is one of the oldest populations in the world, right?

I wouldn't be surprised. I wonder if they just thought of this 20 years ago and they're already ahead of the game. I wouldn't be surprised by that because we're so stuck in our ways over here. But yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if it's like a really good country for you to go and check out and be keen to see what your experiences would be.

Really,

it's one of the places that's on my list. Japan and China, both on bucket list. So places to go. Now I really want to get over there just because I mean, talking about things that push you into the adventure zone. Yeah. Going to a country where you can't even read the alphabet. It's going to be good, right? That's got to be. That's where your phone's not going to be a great deal of use to you, it really? I mean, if you can't read the sign in the first place.

Yeah, yeah, that's-

mean,

I Google will translate it for you, that's going to be an adventure place to go. So it's definitely a high-monester places to visit.

China,

I reckon if you get into the out of the big cities, excluding Shanghai or Beijing, you get into the smaller cities and the countryside. That is a challenge. I'd imagine that'd be the adventure that I can see what we talked about in the early conversation about, you know, no smartphone days. think even with a smartphone there, cause it's restricted with some websites and stuff. I reckon that'd be a huge challenge and the language as well. Yeah, that'd be pretty rogue.

That would be, mean, if you set yourself a task of going from a point in North China to a point in, you know, right in the South or down near the pool or something like that, and then just trying to wing it along the way. Come on, James, you've got to do that. Can you imagine the amount of stuff you've got?

that trip. know. Yeah. I think a three month trip in China is high on my list, but I do have a rule. My rule, my only rule with this trip would be I do want to learn Mandarin because we mentioned about getting stuck into the people, right? And getting immersed. I get the impression from all the social media I see that if you can speak a bit Mandarin, they love it. And I think they're really happy you've learned it. And obviously you're to learn a little bit about where you are, what these people do. So I think that's my rules.

I do want to learn a bit of that language. Normally I kind of learn a little bit to get by, but not too in depth. think Mandarin is a one I want to get stuck into.

It's such an alien language to us, isn't it? Yeah. It would be wonderful to be able to speak it. Like you say, I think you'd have to learn it en route as well. You pick up the basics before you go and then just sort of really get stuck into talking to people. Again, it's one of those things, isn't it? Yeah. Confidence is a big thing when it comes down to speaking languages and it is travelling. You've got to be prepared to look like a bit of a Wally sometimes.

Yeah, really

to really get involved and to really take in everything that's going on around you.

Yeah. Okay. I'll tell us some great research resources that you might use to read about a country for accessibility.

So, mean, magazines are always a very good start. ⁓ So, know, magazines like Wanderlust that are really useful and quite explanatory or quite, they give a good overview of places, but there is nothing like people's experiences. So YouTube's always a really good source. So just Googling people who have been there, know, disabled traveler, whatever country it may be. The second source then, once you've done that, is if you're looking at places that are more specific.

is to Google those places and dig into it, but never ever just trust the disabled sign, the wheelchair sign. Okay. Because it doesn't always do what it says on the tin. There's instances where they say, this room is accessible. It puts a wheelchair sign on it. And then you go into the room and there's a lip going into the shower, which is absolutely no good for somebody in a wheelchair because they can't get over the lip.

Yeah.

Or there'll be a gravel path taking you to the accessible room. So the room's fine. The room works, but they can't wheel up a gravel pathway uphill. So these things that they kind of need, they need a bit of research on, they need a bit of digging around on the internet. And I think that is where, you know, we said about adventures that maybe you can't have adventures without because of the internet now a day. However, as a source of information.

other people's experiences at places like this are invaluable when you're planning a trip, when you're worried about whether you will or won't be able to do anything. Like I said, from my point of view, I'm quite lucky because I'm still pretty mobile and I can deal with probably 70, 80 % of the things that are presented with in front of me. And there's only a few things that limit me back. So I'm happy to put myself in that situation if I can then feed that information back through that.

perhaps this could be a bit tricky or that is successful even though it says it isn't or whichever way around that might be because for me, I'd say I'm quite lucky that I can tackle a lot of the stuff that I come up against.

Okay. And airlines. Any airlines that are really good at this stuff? Accessibility? Any ones that... ⁓

And

third virgin are getting pretty good at it. ⁓ And to be fair, most airports are largely pretty good and the issue becomes the airlines themselves, actual airplanes. I think there's a lot of horror stories that goes around about people being left on planes and when everybody else has cut off and that still happens and that is not.

Some program, Social Morgan over here recently did a program on it, know, showing where to get to the bathroom wheelchair users have had to literally sit on the floor and drag themselves the aisle to get to the bathroom and then use that bathroom, which is simply not good enough in the 21st century. know, it's, it just isn't. Airports themselves are really good with the support that they give people and with regards to getting across airports, with regards to, you know, people there to help them. Even.

You know, more out of the way countries that I've been to have been really, really helpful. So, know, Ivory Coast recently, the airport staff were brilliant. But again, the airlines themselves are a little bit limited and I'm afraid that the big changes won't happen until the current stock of airplanes are replaced. Which may happen because I mean, get bearing in mind that the tragedies that have happened recently, I think there will be a lot of stock that does get replaced.

Yeah, good point.

And it doesn't take much. mean, there's a lot of advances in it. There's some people on LinkedIn who are working with closely with the aviation industry to make small changes. So you have lock spaces for wheelchairs where those chairs can be locked into place and there's two or three seats that are reserved for wheelchair users. And then they have accessible loo on the way. Budget flights are always going to be a bit of a challenge because of the nature of budget flights. Getting people up and down steps on a budget flight is...

yeah.

Never graceful and it's, you know, they've got step machines that take you up, but you're on show the whole time you're going up and it isn't, it isn't a nice thing to witness or to be involved in. It will get there, but it's going to move very slowly for airlines I feel, sadly. Virgin, like I say, Virgin are pretty good with their airlines. Some of the bigger airlines are better and some of the bigger planes are better, but the budget planes are still struggling.

Yeah, I guess that is just, yeah, you're right about replacing the actual plane. Yeah. I guess they're at the mercy of like Boeing and Airbus, aren't they? And stuff like that. Yeah.

Yeah. And of course they're there, they will do it if they realize there is a profit in it. I don't want to be cynical, but if they realize the profit in it, but the companies aren't going to buy a new plane until they've got every penny they can get out of that plane done. Unless there are changes that don't cost them too much to do, such as replacing a couple of seats in a row for wheelchair accessible locking seats. So, yeah. mean, you know, size of a toilet cubicle in a,

Yeah.

Yeah,

I mean, as I'm thinking it.

You can either get in there when you stood up with that wheelchair. If you've got any adaptions whatsoever. It's a difficult one. It will happen, but I'm not holding my breath to see it massively changing anytime soon. There'll be airlines that follow through quicker than others.

do you think that's the biggest issue facing accessibility travel right now is the, I mean, before you can get there, you've got to get there, right? So if you can't get there, then that's an issue, right? So is that the biggest problem we have is the transportation in terms of whether that's a low cost airline or even a, even a

Yeah,

I think, I think you're probably right. think it is, is if not the biggest thing, of the top two or three. I mean, destinations, as I say, there are some destinations that are better than others, information is the other key factor. If airlines sorted themselves out and then destinations had clearer, more specific information, would be, that would definitely help out, definitely get everything forward.

Okay. And let's go into your journalism side. So this brings us towards the end really where you're writing about this stuff. You mentioned you were in the sort of hospitality sector, early doors, university, working, done the inter-rel trip. So where does the writing come into it? Were you always a writer? Is it something you love? Like where does that come in to the life of Matt?

So kind of linking back to what I said about stories at the beginning, I've always loved stories. Always, always loved stories where they're about people. I I grew up, I read a lot of comics, I read a lot of Asterix books. Yeah. Yeah. So Asterix was always traveling all over the place, going to different parts of the world with different cultures and different people and telling great stories along the way. And then there's stories of ancient Greece, all those sorts of things. The mythology has always been part of our world and I've kind of loved that.

forever and I've always tried my hand at writing short stories here and writing short stories there. But think there's a lot of people who do, they get sidetracked by proper job.

Yeah, talk about it.

So, yeah, so, know, one that perhaps is very good at paying their bills, but perhaps not one that makes them jump out of bed with joy every morning.

Mm.

And I had great fun going down that line of working in hospitality and starting off running a few little chefs. Do remember those?

Yeah, little chefs, bloody hell. Blossom pie.

So running Little Chefs and then some other restaurants and then moving on to functions and banqueting. But again, it's a lot of talking to people and finding out people's stories and being able to chat to people. I've always loved that as well. finally, when I got to the point of working managing partnerships for a training provider in hospitality, I knew I needed a change. I knew I needed to do something that I was passionate about.

I took a bit of time off work and thought, what do I really love doing? I love traveling. I was talking to people. I love stories and I love writing. Well, therein you tie all that together. What am going to be? I'm going to be a travel writer. Let's go and tell people about the world and see if I can put the passion that I've got for it across to other people and open up other people's horizons and encourage them to get out there into the world as well. So I literally took a leap of faith and quit.

My job, knowing nothing about the travel writing industry. In my head, it worked one way and it turns out it didn't work that way at all. I had to kind of relearn everything from the beginning. was in contact, a lot of it was through sort of putting myself in networking positions where I didn't know anybody and talking to people. And I came across somebody who was a travel writer, an established travel writer, a couple of people who were running a travel writing 101 course.

⁓ wha- Okay.

Okay.

⁓ it's called talk, talk travel writing, ⁓ by Lottie Gross and Steph Dyson. Okay. And I took their 101 course and that kind of set me to, to understand the industry a lot better than I did before. And then I went to another couple of events and at one of the events, so it's just a story behind it, funny enough. And this is to do with when I came to Whistler. So I went to this event and knew nobody at the event. So, and I was fresh to the industry. I'd written.

Cool.

Okay, yeah.

One article had been published for free on a very small website. So I hadn't done anything that had been paid at point. And I was in this room with all these people and it was a launch for a company going another. And this guy caught my eye in the room. thought, I seem from somewhere. You know, when you get that niggling thought that you're like, absolutely, definitely sure I know you, but I can't figure out where it is. So this is the went on. I kept seeing him at the corner of my eye and there he is still not coming to me.

who this guy is, where I knew him from, or even where I could know him from. But trundled on all the way through the evening and just as I was about to walk out, he was stood there talking to a couple of people. So, solid, I'm to say like, said like, really sorry, I think I know you from somewhere. I've got no idea where I know you from. We started chatting and I didn't know him from anywhere, but it turns out he was the rep from Destination Vancouver.

Okay, interesting. Yeah.

So he was from, the lady he was from was the person from Go Whistler and they were also with the PR and they were over promoting the Invictus games that we should have forthcoming, think it was February this year, I think, it? And they wanted, they were looking for people to come over and do a bit of work with them so that they could get a bit of publicity in the UK. So we were talking about my story and obviously I was on crutches at the time, well, I'm crutches, so they were asking about that.

Absolutely serendipitous because they were looking for somebody who would be invested in talking about the Invictus Games and what Whistler and Vancouver could offer for less able-bodied travellers and less able-bodied people going there and how the Invictus Games would help to expand their horizons and the accessibility within BC. And they offered me my first price trip.

out of that conversation, out of thinking that I knew the person. I call it, it was my brain, it was my subconscious saying, you've got to go talk to that person. You have to go and talk to that person. And it was weird because I saw him all the way through the night. I just could not get it out of my head that I knew this guy. And so they offered me the opportunity to do that. And then I managed to get a piece with the iNewspaper and another piece about the First Nations. the Squamish, the Lil Wots, the Silwatu.

And just one more at this time.

B, one I should know. Odd.

Come on James. Go.

Little what Squamish. Say what to you.

work on their land. Musqueam people. I'm sorry, because my job is on Musqueam land. The unseeded territory of Musqueam people.

Yeah,

yeah, yeah. So, and I did a piece for adventure.com about that and a piece for travel weekly. So, yeah, I offer one conversation. I had three articles that were paid and published that kind of gave me my portfolio to be able to more confidently approach other publications in the future.

So how does it work for you? Do you figure out a topic, maybe like propose a pitch and then say they like it, or do you go and get the story first, write it and then pitch that? How does that work?

Works differently in different parts of the world. So the states that they tend to want you to have traveled first and then have the story and go to them with the story idea.

Whereas UK is much more based around you coming up with an idea and then approaching the different publications, whether it be press or magazines with that idea and then then saying yes or no. And then you telling them roughly when you think you're going to be able to provide them a copy for that article. And then you go, if you're organizing it independently, you would then go and find out who the PRs are for certain regions. So then representatives, whether it be tourist boards, whether it be people representing a hotel chains, whatever it may be.

begin to pull that trip together so that you can then go off on that trip and then write the story. Press trips are somewhat easier in that they will be organized by that region to promote specifically that region. So they will give you an itinerary first of all, and you can get a bunch of ideas off of that story, off that itinerary, which you can then go and pitch. And then if you successfully pitch, that kind of reserves your place on that press trip.

Yeah.

Okay, so your plides

So for

instance, we'll take the one with Lucy. So they came to me and said, we'd like you to come on this press trip. This is the itinerary and we're going to need what they call a tier one publication, which is national press, international top end magazine. So then I look at their itinerary. I would work through that, come up with a few ideas, start pitching it to different papers and publications. And then the eye came back, said yes. So I go back then to PR, say I've got this story for the eye. PR says, great. I'll check it. Yeah. We're happy with that. Brilliant. You can come on a trip.

Got it. Good. Yeah. So then you get back once you've had the trip and you can be right and send it back off to whoever. But of course then you can also write other ideas off the back of it and get other stories out there for different publications because what happens as we know from India, what happens on the itinerary isn't always what happens on the trip.

that's interesting,

But I thought that is that actually for us, no deliverables for that press trip in India, right? So that's in it. That must be quite unique. I don't know that's the first time you've been on a trip where you've really don't have to do anything after.

I mean, I made a few videos out of it, so I also made some videos and bits and pieces, yeah, largely no writing. I've still got one idea which I might write up after that, but I'm not going to put that on here because somebody might need...

yeah.

Yeah, interesting.

Yeah, don't declare that.

But yeah, mean, so I mean the Indian one was great because I do, I like making videos as I go places as well. because I'm, the Bezier one is, was really popular on my, on my YouTube channel because it taught, it is video some of the places and the pathways that you can go, which is another great way of getting the information out there to, to people who are looking to go different destinations and see how accessible they are.

Hmm. A few questions left. You mentioned about networking. So I guess my question here about tips to get people who want to start off as a freelance travel writer. I've asked this a few times on the podcast, but I'm keen to get your thoughts. I guess that is like networking, being ballsy, being a good writer, I guess is a good thing as well. And obviously interest or experience in this stuff that you're writing about. What I find interesting about travel writers, and this is a bit of a rant, I see a lot of travel writers who do more moaning on LinkedIn.

than actually doing traveling about not getting on press trips or not getting like enough courage or enough opportunity to write. I'm like, cause I'm not, I'm not a writer. not in that world. I'm like, well, just go out and travel and get the story first and then see what happens. Like there's a few writers like that who I know who are a bit more proactive, should I say, but yeah, just an interesting world that I stumbled across.

gig at the end of the day, it's a tough gig. You don't get paid very much. So to be honest, the traveling first and then hoping to get something when you come back, if you do that for too long, you're just going to run out of money. So I can appreciate those people that are there saying that they need the press trip first. But if you've got the ideas that make for an interesting, unique story and somebody somewhere will pick it up if you write well. And I would say networking at the beginning, we're networking all the way through.

Sure, yeah.

is so important. can't, you know, go to events, go talk to people. Don't worry the fact that you don't know it because everybody didn't know something at one point in time. Yeah. Everybody was in your position once I was in your position once and I still am in the position once I don't know. I mean, I'm only like a year and a half into this James. So I'm still writing to be in a career year and a half. Yeah. I'm still writing to be in and at this, but it goes back to the thing people are lovely. Most people want to talk and if people are passionate about what they're doing,

They want to talk about it. And if you, if you have the, the, the passion to, to want to do it and you want to travel and you want to tell stories and you're good at doing it, then people will, will recognize that at some point in time and it will come across when you're talking to people. You might, you might pitch something and then not hear it back for six months and then six months later, something, somebody pops up and it pops into their head. Oh, that guy that you were talking to, I was talking to the other day, he was talking about India and he seemed really

Yes, I'm-

positive about it. Let's see what if he wants to write this piece for us and then suddenly somebody's come to you and ask you to write a piece.

them. Yeah, I guess it's like putting the little like stones in the water, right? Just keep chipping away, throw them in and then hopefully something comes later because I pitching is a thankless task isn't it? I you've got to accept that you might not hear back ever or as you say it could be like a year down the line or whatever, right? It could be a slog.

I keep a spreadsheet of all my pitches. So, and I color code it. So, pitches that are red, that pitches that have been replied to and where I know. Pictures that are green were pitches that are replied to and they've taken it. And pitches that are white are pitches that I've pitched, chased and have never heard back from. 80 % of my spreadsheet is white.

yeah. ⁓ yeah.

Easily, 70, 80 % of this spreadsheet is white that you've just never heard of background.

think that's just real life. That's just what happens in it.

It

could be a bit disheartening, you know, mean, the editors out there, there's limited amount of magazines, there's a limited amount of newspapers. get hundreds of pitches. So that's why networking is so important. And that's why having a good tagline is so important in what you're writing.

Yeah. Are you quite unique or is there quite a few people doing accessible travel content?

When I started, thought I was going to be quite unique. I'm not. There's a lot of out there doing it. Obviously, I mean, you can see it as a niche and it is a niche really, but there's a lot of writers out there doing it to different degrees and in different mediums as well, which is great because it just means that there's more information out there. And at the end of the day, you

Yeah.

There's a whole world more travel writers that are able-bodied out there doing it and we're just putting a different angle on it to address a different part of the market.

Interesting. Yeah. Huh. I find it interesting that people would write about accessibility travel, but they're not experiencing it themselves.

You think, right. so I mean, it is, so I wouldn't write pieces that are exclusively, I'm unlikely to write pieces that are exclusively about accessible travel because I want it to appeal to everybody. There's no reason for it to exclude anybody from a piece that I write, but I want it to be embedded in everything that I write so that there is information that is useful to people who have already worn that information.

And I think, you know, even if you don't have a disability, but if you have an awareness of it, so I have a friend who's a writer and she has disabled kids.

Okay. Yeah.

So her experience is really, really useful. She's not disabled herself, but she has experience of traveling with people who are kids who are disabled. You know, there's different perspectives to take on it. And I think everybody's viewpoint is useful because it brings more to the forefront.

Yeah. Okay. Agreed. Okay. And to finish, where can people find your work? And maybe YouTube, social medias and websites.

So on YouTube, am the empowered traveler. That's traveler spelled the English way. So the way. ⁓

I've got US dominant audience, so better attract that statement.

In

the Instagram as well. Matt the Empowered Traveler and my Facebook I don't use my super Mac, but it is the Empowered Traveler on Facebook as well. I'm also on LinkedIn under Matt Dennis. So I can be found on there on LinkedIn.

website.

And website, do you have a website as well? yeah. Yeah, most crucial thing.

What's that website?

James, it's a good job you're here.

The website is www.theempoweredtraveller.com

⁓ no there. ⁓ Cool. know about those in the show notes so people can click on those and get in contact with, ⁓ anyway possible. guess you are open to maybe people want to talk to you about could be accessible travel could be maybe want to work with you. guess anything's open on those doors.

Well, not enough.

Yeah, absolutely. mean, I'm happy to have a chat with anybody about destinations or, you know, anything that's going. You just want to promote more of the world to more people.

Lovely. Okay. And to finish the episode, we're going to do some travel, quick fire travel questions. There's like a little feature at the end. normally top three.

your

plan James.

Yeah, it's always in the plan. Every guest gets half this. It's at the bottom of the If you look at the bottom, it's just at the little bottom.

So I have got a couple of really big trips I'm looking forward to. I'm actually off to Finland tomorrow, Tuesday morning. And that is a really good one. Cause it's 80 years this year that the Moomin's was written by Tovi Jansson. You looked blank as I said that James.

So, Moominz was a kids cartoon, it is a kids cartoon program. was around, it was big in the nineties and in the eighties and nineties. And then it's made a resurgence in the last couple of years as well. So any of your Japanese readers definitely will know it as well because it's big in Japan. So I'm going, I'm going, I'm doing a bit of research into Toby Jansen and also doing a piece for the iNewspaper on why Finland consistently hits the pierced country in the world. So that's going to be exciting.

OK, yeah.

And I'm doing that by intro, but that's the train journey as well.

on so you're going London to Paris Paris

So I'm flying to Helsinki and then doing the interrail around Finland. I've got five different destinations in Finland I'm going to. So Helsinki, Turkey, Tampere, ⁓ have a Scala, they're going to kill me for these pronunciations.

It's a tough language. I'll give you that.

It's a lovely sounding language as well. It's not Russian, it's not any of the Swedish languages and it is of its own. It doesn't bear much relation to any other language in Europe. Weirdly, I think it sounds a little bit like Portuguese. Oddly. But yeah, I'm really looking forward to that one. So that's the next immediate one. But the one after that, I'm specifically focused on accessible travel.

Failed? Yeah.

I'm going to now, actually my other half Adele is coming with me on this one, which is extra special, so it's going to be super cool. But we are traveling with somebody who I've met at World Trade who specializes, her company specializes in accessible travel and called it Il Viaggio. She's called Stephanie Protti and it's to Costa Rica. Yeah. So everything, we're going for two weeks, 15 days and.

Lovely. Yeah.

Everything that is involved in that trip is accessible and can be done by anybody.

wow, that's crazy.

And that's what her company specialises in. it will be, we're not staying in one place either, we're moving around as we go for the 15 days. So it will be through things like rafting, kayaking, horse riding, turtles, peaches, biolife treks, going up volcanoes, all range of things. And everything is focused on that accessibility aspect of it. she's an amazing woman. She advises other people on to make their businesses accessible.

So to the extent that when they had lockdown in COVID era, she didn't sit on her ⁓ hands. She put into place a scheme of advice that the government's brought in, in Costa Rica to advise people on how to make their resorts, their hotels, their trips accessible for everybody. And she has also started up various different charities that work in conservation and within accessibility as well. So she has one.

That encourages locals to collect plastics that's found on beaches. And that plastics then brought back in, recycled and made into pathways that can be laid across beaches so that wheelchairs can access the water. It's just, innovation. Amazing. I'm really looking forward to it. So I'm happy to be doing a piece for Lonely Planet. Okay. And that one, and we're to be doing a few more pieces as well along the way for it. But yeah, that's going to be, that's going to be really good.

I'm excited about that. Amazing. That'd be like a real adventure. But it sounds a bit, you're going to be like busy, lots of activities. That'd be awesome.

It's going to be very, I mean, this is the really exciting, although I did say just a minute ago, I don't write things that are exclusively about accessibility. The balance on this one is going to be hugely in accessibility as well, which is going to be really interesting. And what will also be interesting is to see who picks up story ideas when I come back to see who genuinely is interested in publishing those thoughts.

So you have like only planner who's guaranteed to do one. Then you've to pitch out to other ones to see if they, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, they should be picking that up. Why wouldn't they?

Lowly planethood guaranteed.

Yeah, well, I hope so because this is, you know, I mean, you talk about people pushing the boundaries of adventure. This is the opportunity for people to go do stuff that they didn't think they'd otherwise be able to do and really pushing the boundaries of what they can achieve.

real. Okay, right, let's get to the real travel questions, like quickfire ones. It's travel question time. Top three favorite countries you've traveled to. India. Yeah.

Yeah,

100%. Just love it. This place is absolutely bonkers. It's just mental. So that is without doubt number one. Number two is Italy because I love Italy. course, Italy is just gorgeous. The food, the wine, the countryside, the people, the history, just wonderful. And weirdly, I always think Napoli is the closest you can get in Europe to India. It's just mental.

looks

crazy, hasn't never been. Yeah.

I'm not, I'm not just saying this, but I love BC. When I came to British Columbia and up to Vancouver in the mountains and I was blown away by the, just the scenery, the scale of it is for somebody from England is just huge.

yeah.

Okay, and what about three countries you've not traveled to, that if tomorrow, no rules, you can go anywhere? Top three, where you going?

We've already mentioned to them, right? Japan, China. Definitely. It would be Southeast Asian countries. So Japan and China for sure. ⁓ I'd like to go to more of Africa. So maybe somewhere like Congo or, you know, central African countries. I think it would be really interesting to go and do a bit of exploring. My palette's been wetted by the Ivory Coast recently.

Fair enough. Talk about food actually. Top three favorite countries for food.

Oh, come on. It's the same question. Surely that's like India, Italy, France. Yeah. Yeah. So I probably put it's Italy. So Italy, Italy, Italy, Italy food. could just live on forever. Just beautiful pastas, pizzas, lots of vegetables, lots of fresh food. India is just because I'm a vegetarian or a pescatarian. So India is range and diversity of vegetarian food is just superb. And when we were there, mean, irrespective of

Okay.

quality of the places that we were staying in. The food was brilliant in all of them. They were really, really good. And France, well, yeah, French cooking is great. went to the Deux Doin recently and I mean, I think one day I had 11 courses of food, 12 courses of food. With wine. It was lovely. I mean, I came back about 10 times heavier than I left, but.

Who cares? Okay. Are you a sunrise or sunset person? Sunrise. Oh, well, hey, I never get the answer. And what about...

Bye.

Sunrise,

kind of, it's difficult. I find it difficult to get out of bed, but I love it and I up early and I like sleeping. So I like going to bed early. Fair.

If you could move to a country tomorrow and live there for a year, I'm going to have to exclude. Yeah. And I'll see probably maybe France. You mentioned that too many times. Where are you going to live? It can be somewhere you've been or something completely new entirely up to you.

Where am gonna ne-

I mean, I would love to go somewhere entirely new. I would love to spend a bit of time in Brazil. I'd love to live a little bit of time in some of the African countries. Actually, I'd like to go somewhere maybe like Laos or Cambodia. I think would be an interesting place to go and live for a little while as well, just so you've got a completely different environment to be in at some time.

And has there been a country, or more specifically a place or region, that you traveled to that you didn't like?

Yeah, India. It's the best and the worst place in the world.

Someone else said exactly the thing. They love and hate it. Did they really? Yeah. They love and hate it.

I mean, yeah, I love and hate it at the same time. is the best and the worst place I've ever been. I mean, outside of that, I don't think I've ever been anywhere that I just haven't liked. The bits of Egypt can be a little bit overwhelming at times. There's a lot of pressure on you to buy things and a lot of people have seen you all the time. So I think Egypt can be a bit challenging sometimes, but I don't think it would stop me from going back.

Okay, if you could sit anywhere in the world for a cup of coffee and watch the world go by for an afternoon, where are going to sit?

I would sit in I would sit in, I think it would probably be Naples. Find a square in Naples that's good and open and the people, there's so much life lived on the streets in the middle of Naples. It's just all in front of you. It's like having East End that's going on in front of you. It's just, it's great. It's like a soap opera in real life. So much going on. And so with a cup of coffee and

In the old days, I probably would have had cigarette as well at the same time.

Lovely. And next one is landmarks. So what's your favorite landmark? It can be nature or manmade.

Rockies in Canada, stunning, mean, stunning, standing on top of or looking up towards Black Tusk. Black Tusk, is Black Tusk, it? Yeah. Amazing. That was beautiful. we went to, so recently there was a, known as an Ivory Coast. We went to Yamasukho, which is now the capital of Ivory Coast.

In the center of it, there's a basilica. the basilica, like proper Christian basilica, you wouldn't look at a place in Rome. It's the biggest basilica in the world. And its walls all the way around the basilica are made of stained glass. Every single wall, every panel is stained glass. And it is said, how true it is, I don't know, but I can imagine it might be not, but often true, that there is more stained glass in those walls than there is in every church in France put together. And it is.

spectacular. It really is spectacular.

What a stat that is. Unreal.

Yeah. Yeah. And it is, it blew my mind. blew every week. was five of us on the press trip and everyone was irrespective of how religious we were. We stood there absolutely gobsmacked by the place.

Okay. And put on what question is going to be what countries people have maybe gone out of the way the most to help you out? Like the nicest or you've really been stuck and they've, they've come good. Is there anywhere that you'd like to give a shout out to?

It's hard to pick one place out, I mean, it's probably going to be Italy because that was the place that I went to first of all, when I was sort of like pushing and growing my confidence. just like I said, that story of a little old lady that helped me, not only gave me directions, but took me, literally led me by the hand to the place and where people have gone out of their way to help you to get a place to stay for that night. And people have invited you into their homes. Just such a friendly country. Albania was...

really, really similar. They might not have a lot of the resources over there, but I mean, people were so lovely, so helpful, so approachable. Now I left bus trips from talking to people with a bag of plums that had been given to me and a badge that somebody else had given to me. And just because you were talking and after the time you weren't able to communicate effectively because I didn't speak Albanian and they didn't speak English, but still given all these gifts.

Okay. And last question is if someone's listening right now, who's a bit nervous about traveling, they could be, um, I don't know, it be anyone in Western Europe, could be anyone around the world, kind of a disability, whatever it is, but you can inspire them to go and take the leap and travel somewhere that's a out of their comfort zone and to give them a bit of advice, maybe two sentences. What would you say?

I would say book it and then research it afterwards. So do it, just get out there, do it. Just book where you want to go that you thought you might like, book it and then work it out because you will be able to do it one way or another.

That's great. Yeah. ⁓

Just do it first and then work it out. You'll be fine. You'll be able to do it one way or another. There'll be a way around it.

Is that because if you research first, you might talk yourself out of it? Is that what you're thinking there?

think so. Yeah, I think so. I mean, obviously you wouldn't go and put yourself into like a lodge in the middle of Namibia without knowing what's there. But if you go into, to push the boundaries away, say you've never been to Europe before, if it's a Canadian head into Europe, you've never been to Europe before, just do it, go. If you go into, you know, some of the more developed countries of South America, just go and work it out. You'll be okay. You'll be okay. Talk to people. That's a good bit of advice.

Okay,

Talk to people, do never be afraid of talking to people. If you could talk to anybody that's there, people will want to talk back to you.

trying to, we watched that film before, before sunrise. Have you seen that film? It's my partner's favorite film. There's a trilogy before sunrise, before sunset, before midnight. And the opening scene, I don't want give too much away from a watch it. The opening scene is them on an interating trip in Europe as American and a, is she German? Yeah. And they meet on a train and just talk to each other. And it starts from that. And obviously the story develops over the three, but a film nine years apart.

No, I haven't said-

So they're like interestingly going from, I guess they would have been like late teens, early twenties to then what happened in the nine years since to the late twenties and then to the late thirties, early forties. think it's like that sort of vibe. It's interesting trilogy. Yeah. I, I'm not a film buff, but I quite enjoyed it. And they all started on an inter-ethnic trip in somewhere in Germany and they talked to each other. So there you go.

is, you meet the best people and people are lovely, genuinely, genuinely, genuinely people are lovely despite whatever you watch in the news, whatever you read in the newspapers, people are, people are loved.

Yeah. Maybe it's Austria. Okay. Film buffs. Don't, get in the order of that. But it's one of those two countries. Matt, cheers for coming on. Appreciate it. It's been a great chat. It's absolutely flown by and there's a of questions we didn't get to. So that means you might have come back on.

Oh man, I'd be more than happy to. It's been an absolute pleasure talking to you, James, and talking about it all. I was just thinking about loads of stories that I've got to say, yeah, I'm up for doing another one if you ever have.

Absolutely, I'll be in touch and it's great to see you again. Yeah, cheers coming on. Cheers. Thanks for tuning in to the podcast episode today. If you've been inspired by today's chat and want to book some travel, if you head to the show notes, you'll see some affiliate links below, which helps support this podcast. You'll find Skyscanner to book your flight. You'll find Booking.com to book that accommodation. Want to stay in a super cool hostel? You'll see Hostel World down there too. You'll find Revolut to get your travel card sorted. Click the GIGSky link to get your eSIM ready for your trip.

See you too. Cheers.

And more importantly, you'll find safety wing insurance to get that travel insurance for your trip. There are many more to check out. So when you click that link and book your product, a small commission goes towards me and the Wigginit Travel Podcast. Thank you in advance and enjoy your travels.